Every Marketer Needs to Hear This in 2026

*Build your AI marketing department with this Claude skill:* https://clickhubspot.com/50cn Ask Kipp and Kieran a question: https://form.asana.com/?k=U4n5W_3WC2SkQO1bwK8Xzg&d=8587152060687 Is the CMO role dying? B2B CMO roles are down about 10 percentage points, and more founders are splitting marketing in two: brand and product marketing into the product org, growth and demand into sales. Kipp and Kieran say this is the most requested episode they've done in a long time, and they don't fully agree on the answer. Kipp opens with the hottest take of the show: marketers aren't good enough, and 20 years of extreme specialization got us here. The back half is practical: what a founder should actually do if they can't find the unicorn, the mentor-plus-bet structure, and the advisor play that 5x's your chances of landing a top 1% marketer. Ep 451 Mentions Loop: Outlearn. Outmarket. Outgrow ⁠https://www.hubspot.com/loop-marketing-book LinkedIn ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/ 📌 WHAT WE COVER: → The data: B2B CMO roles down about 10 points → The new structure founders are using: brand into product, demand into sales → Kipp's take: marketers aren't good enough (and why it's not their fault) → How 20 years of specialization built the wrong CMO pipeline → Why AI pushed marketing to two extremes no one person can straddle → The paradox: marketing matters more than ever, which is why the role is dying → Marketing used to be a black box. Founders now have AI as a baseline → Why a bad VP hire makes the founder blame the CMO → Kipp: the split structure is right, under two conditions → Doing nothing beats doing the wrong thing → Kieran's pushback: sales and product leaders can't hire marketers either → Marketing is a game of magnitude, and diffused teams don't take big swings → Why growth and brand were never actually disconnected → Mindset, hiring, skills, experience: the right order and the one everyone uses → Never hire with a gun to your head → What to do if you can't find the unicorn: three options → The keep-warm list and the 5-advisor play for landing a top 1% CMO → The verdict: a talent pipeline mismatch, not a dead role 🎙️ Hosts: Kipp Bodnar and Kieran Flanagan ⏱️ CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Is the CMO role dying? The most requested episode yet 01:10 - The data: B2B CMO roles down 10 points and the new org structure 03:25 - Kipp's grenade: marketers aren't good enough 04:50 - Why AI pushed marketing to two extremes no one person can straddle 06:05 - The paradox: marketing matters more than ever and that's what kills the role 10:10 - Should the CMO die? Kipp says yes, under two conditions 12:40 - Kieran pushes back: you just moved the problem to sales and product 15:00 - The biggest case for a CMO: marketing is a game of magnitude 18:10 - Mindset, hiring, skills, experience: most people rank them backwards 21:00 - Never hire with a gun to your head 24:50 - What founders should actually do: pay the unicorn, or bet and mentor 28:30 - The advisor play that 5x's your odds of hiring a top 1% CMO 30:55 - The verdict: the CMO role is coming back Host Links: 📲Kipp Bodnar, https://twitter.com/kippbodnar 📲Kieran Flanagan, https://twitter.com/searchbrat ‘Marketing Against The Grain’ is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by The HubSpot Podcast Network // Produced by Darren Clarke. #CMO #MarketingLeadership #ChiefMarketingOfficer #B2BMarketing #MarketingCareers #HeadOfMarketing #MarketingStrategy #Founders #Hiring #AIMarketing #MarketingAgainstTheGrain #HubSpot About the Show Kipp Bodnar, HubSpot’s CMO and Kieran Flanagan Hubspot's SVP of Marketing, lead you down the rabbit hole of marketing trends, growth tactics and innovation. On the way you’ll pick up undiscovered strategies to give you that slight edge for success. These are not your typical twitter thread regurgitated marketing tactics that everyone is doing. These are new methods, with unfiltered examination of successful fresh ideas.